New member
I am new here and need some information regarding Dianetics and its effectiveness in treating mental problems ... It would really help me to decide whether to go for auditing sessions if you guys could answer the following questions. ...
1. Does it really work or is it just a hoax? If it works, are the results permanent?2. How long does it normally take for a PC [preclear] to become Clear?3. Do they start with self-analysis before starting the actual auditing sessions? How long do the self-analysis sessions last?4. Could you just sign-up for auditing sessions as a form of therapy or do they force you to join the Church of Scientology at some point?
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7. Do they follow any client confidentiality policy in their code of ethics?8. An auditing session looks quite similar to abreaction therapy in general psychology. What makes it different from classical psychotherapy?9. What do TRs entail? Are they helpful in terms of improving mental health or are they mostly targeted towards skill development?
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stratty
1. No [it doesn’t work]. It’s a hoax.2. There is no such thing as “Clear.” It’s a part of the bait and switch.3. Dunno.4. They are only interested in your money.
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7. They say they do but if you fall foul of them in any way all bets are off.8. It’s much more expensive.9. Staring at people. No [not helpful to mental health]. No [not targeted toward improved skills].
lotus
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It [Scientology] is a money scam and may definitely worsen any mental condition. It’s an abusive cult and their processes are only oriented to control people and manipulate their mind in beliefs like they are invaded by ... entities they must cure with expensive auditing. You can find many testimonies in searching for psychotic breaks and suicides in Scientology.
Get professional help if you need mental health care!
Type4_PTS
... Dianetics does NOT deliver what is promised. Not one Clear has been created with all the abilities as promised by Hubbard.
Hubbard couldn’t even resolve his own mental issues despite having access to the very best practitioners. Just as you wouldn’t hire a plumber if you knew he had water leaks all over his own home along with a backed up toilet, I wouldn’t recommend someone who created a mental health therapy when he couldn’t resolve his own very serious issues.
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Dotey OT
Dianetics does not do what it advertises that it does. First, it states that there is such a thing as a Reactive Mind and an Analytical Mind. This has not been proven at all by anyone, anywhere at any time, other than the author of Dianetics. You really don’t need to go much further than that.
Anyone who says that it works, in any way, small or otherwise, should be held responsible for making a claim about something that could bring harm.
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HelluvaHoax!
1. Does it really work or is it just a hoax? If it works, are the results permanent?ANSWER: Approximately 98% of the people who tried Scientology since 1950 abandoned it because it miserably failed to produce any of the results that were sold. [And] Hubbard’s “technology” should not be inferred to have “worked” on the other 2%. ...
2. How long does it normally take for a PC to become Clear?ANSWER: If anyone ever goes Clear we’ll be delighted to report back to you on that.
3. Do they start with self-analysis before starting the actual auditing sessions? How long do the self-analysis sessions last?ANSWER: Self-analysis has never been part of the “Bridge To Total Freedom” that Hubbard sold to credulous marks, because it produces no more “spiritual gain” than calling up an old friend and reminiscing. Wogs [Co$ jargon for non-Scientologists] already know how to do that without paying Hubbard’s cult $600,000, simply by beginning a sentence with these five (5) words: “Remember the time when ...?”
4. Could you just sign-up for auditing sessions as a form of therapy or do they force you to join the church of Scientology at some point?ANSWER: They force you to join the Church of Scientology. They also force you to sign contracts attesting that you joined the Church of Scientology of your own free will.
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7. Do they follow any client confidentiality policy in their code of ethics?ANSWER: [sarcasm] Absolutely! There is a strict client confidentiality policy! The only exception of this inviolably sacred policy is in the rare event that a Scientologist does not follow orders or in the case that Scientology management doesn’t feel like following the policy that day.
8. An auditing session looks quite similar to abreaction therapy in general psychology. What makes it different from classical psychotherapy?ANSWER: Yes, an auditing session looks similar to that. It also looks similar to a lot of other things, such as philosophy, religion, science, cult con games, Gypsy psychic advisors, charlatanism, and quackery.
cleared cannibal
If it was totally ineffective they couldn’t scam people. The danger is that it is hard to know when you are being indoctrinated. Really not much different than being put in a re-education camp for political dissidents. Are they effective? Depends on one’s viewpoint I guess.
TOO DANGEROUS TO MESS WITH.
Out Ethics
I would recommend staying away from everything related to Scientology, Dianetics, L. Ron Hubbard.
It is dangerous, Scientology does not work and neither does Dianetics.Anything good or helpful was copied by Hubbard to lure you in and trap you.
It’s a cult that is only after your money and free labor.
Very very dangerous to play with.
Try other stuff. Lots of good help out there and you will find something that will help you.
Type4_PTS
[replying to cleared cannibal]
Exactly! Just as it would be difficult to go fishing or trap mice or certain other animals without some bait.
Out Ethics
[replying to cleared cannibal]
It’s as effective as crystal meth or heroine. You will get manipulated into trying it and if you do, years of your life will be gone with nothing of value to show for it but financial ruin and messed up family. It destroys people just like addictive drugs.
stratty
... I was a Standard Dianetics/Scientology grades auditor working in a major scientology org, and I can honestly say with my hand on my heart, that in all the years I was around auditing and auditors, apart from the initial ‘high’ that accompanies the fabled cog-F/N [* see below], I cannot remember one case of somebody actually permanently recovering from any chronic physical discomfort or mental trauma, growing a new tooth or throwing away their spectacles from the hundreds of people that we dealt with as a result of their being audited.
What that says about me and how [expletive] dumb I was to continue my involvement is another matter entirely.
[* A reference to the E-meter. “A floating needle is a rhythmic sweep of the dial at a slow, even pace of the needle. That’s what an F/N is. No other definition is correct.” — L. Ron Hubbard]
Out Ethics
[replying to lotus, who had mentioned several non-Scientology therapies]
All of those work. Most healing is free. Scientology convinces one they are really [expletive] up and only Scientology can fix the [expletive] upness. Scientology does not work.
Glenda
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There are many issues surrounding Dianetics that in my honest opinion make it an unhealthy option for someone seeking to deal with mental health discomforts. The issue of non-transparency is a big issue. No one is told at the beginning that by signing up for some “Dianetics auditing” there will be endless – and I mean endless – further actions necessary (and heavily insisted upon) to continue one’s road to feel better, do well in life, etc., etc. With a healthy therapeutic method one is free to quit at any time, and genuinely walk away. With Dianetics [/ Scientology] ... this is simply not possible. People can kid themselves that they can, and will, just walk away but [your should] know that this is not truly how Scientology works.
A healthy healing method does not create a dependency on the therapist or the therapy method. In my opinion this is very important. I’ll try and explain how this worked with both Dianetics/Scientology and mainstream therapy.
Dianetics is aiming for a goal (they call it Clear). Steps are laid out to follow to attain this goal. This has a tendency to hook a person, hold them to the therapy method and create a dependency. With mainstream therapy, or even Tapping ... this dependency issue is carefully avoided. The therapists I have worked with have always been very careful to not create a need for them to be in my life. They wanted me to become self-sufficient, managing my own inner emotional life and out in the world living life. The difference between that and Dianetics/Scientology is like night and day. With Dianetics you are always being interviewed (by a registrar who does what we called “regging”) to sign up for your next lot of auditing or a course.
Having experienced both [Dianetics and mainstream] methods there is no way I would recommend to someone else a system which becomes sort of like a screwed up marriage where you “have to” stay because you are on a committed path. Leaving gets harder and harder as the months, years, pass due to the attachments and loyalties which are invisibly built.
Dianetics: builds an incessant need to stay and have more and more. Strings attached.
Mainstream therapy: supports you with the issues you present with and respects your right to leave and go live your life your way. No strings attached.
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lotus
[replying to Out Ethics]
I concur!
Scientology is the science of peddling.
The approach is based in convincing people ... they need to be fixed (the bridge and all endless processed to nowhere else than bankruptcy and delusion.)
When people have mental health issues they must look for approved competent licensed therapists instead of listening to charlatan peddlers who only want your money.
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Type4_PTS
[replying to Glenda]
... the “church” of Scientology has no intention for you to walk in, get help to resolve your issues, and then be on your way. Their intention for pretty much everyone who walks through their door is expressed in a policy by Hubbard entitled “Keeping Scientology Working” [a memorandum he first issued in 1965, reissued in 1970, and again in 1980].“When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe – never permit an “open-minded” approach. If they’re going to quit let them quit fast. If they enrolled, they’re aboard, and if they’re aboard, they’re here on the same terms as the rest of us – win or die in the attempt. Never let them be half-minded about being Scientologists.”
HelluvaHoax!
[replying to cleared cannibal’s “If it was totally ineffective they couldn’t scam people.]
NO:There are many degenerate con games, scams and hoaxes that are obviously totally ineffective, yet substantial numbers of people and/or entire cultures/religions get scammed for years, decades or centuries – before the “BIG LIES” are exposed or lose their mesmeric traction.
YES:The better scams incorporate a safeguard which sustains the scam longer than would be thought ... possible. Hubbard’s multi-faceted scam entitled “THE BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM” (which includes such glorious subsets as “Clear!” and “Operating Thetan!) has a “win” generating component, where the mark sees/experiences some level of “proof” that they are realizing substantial “gains.” The key word is “ineffective” (reference your post above).
...
Again, the point here is that a high-quality scam always includes a diabolically clever component that seduces the mark into seeing/believing that they are making huge gains. Scientologists have a multi-faceted set of lenses that tell them they are “really” getting case gain, and that (therefore) the tech has worked! Mainly, the idea of “wins” is a normal human event, especially in any endeavor where REPETITION and FOCUS are required, which auditing/training inherently contains a vast abundance of (i.e. “number of times over materials equals certainty”)
The certainty that Scientologists have that they are having “huge case gains” is a fascinating one indeed, and there are built-in triggers to the fabric of Scientology that ensure their donors receive such “proof of concept” and encouragements to keep their eyes on the prize – and remain blinklessly dedicated in the face of F/Ning foolishness.
HelluvaHoax!
[sarcasm]
The seemingly miraculous generation of new physiology is not unknown in medical annals.
After extensive auditing, I myself grew an entire organ that I was missing since birth.
The reactive brain.
Once I had successfully grown that vital organ, I was very thankfully able to start enjoying the tech’s ability to erase it.
cleared cannibal
[replying to HelluvaHoax!’s YES & NO post]
You can ‘t overlook the reality that people will lie to themselves about their wins. You can get along pretty well sometimes lying to others but when you lie to yourself about Scientology you have crossed the Rubicon.
I guess they just need more auditing. Can you say non confront?
HelluvaHoax!
When you lie to yourself about Scientology you have also crossed the OT [Operator Thetan] Rube-icon.
Panda Termint
Some of it works, some of the time, for some people. :)
Mileages vary, obviously!
Veda
And sometimes it harms people.
[See] the exscn.net/forum/threads/long-strings-of-psychotics.50561 thread.
Panda Termint
I don’t think anyone would argue with that. I certainly wouldn’t.
Out Ethics
[replying to cleared cannibal’s “You can’t overlook the reality that people will lie to themselves about their wins.]
The person HAS to come up with a win or the “session” never ends and money on account runs out.
THAT is a big part of how Scientology operates ( I won’t say WORKS because it does not work. It’s a scam!)
No One
It’s a double bind. The ultimate catch 22.
If your gains are not permanent (and they will not be, guaranteed) YOU are the SP [Suppressive Person] or are PTS [Potential Trouble Source, a person connected to a Suppressive Person] and will have to handle / recruit or disconnect from the person(s) telling you it’s bad, a cult, etc.
It’s NEVER from the lack of efficacy of the technology or process (so it’s written).
It works on EVERYONE the SAME, except for those it doesn’t, and it’s their fault that it doesn’t, it is YOUR fault that it doesn’t. You can’t talk about it, however, or compare because that is also against the rules.
If you try it, good luck to you. Do not try it. I would RUN as fast and as far away as possible; close, lock and bar the doors and windows ...
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freethinker
[replying to cleared cannibal]
This is a major factor in Scientology. Not winning is frowned upon so people keep it to themselves when they are not getting what they thought they should. They doubly keep it under wraps because they know they will be sent to the registrar which has become the real source of their problems. Scientologists refuse to admit they are losing until they hit the bottom.
Dotey OT
Very true. I remember being “gung ho” but having to come up with something to say on a success story. I did a Flag only rundown, Profession Intensive. At the end, I was asked to write a success and I was “meh.” Made to go back in and get off O/W’s. Then changed up the questions a little and revisited the RD. In the end, had to make up a win in order to NOT go back in and do ruds again.
Funny thing about those “wins,” I knew people who bragged about their wins, like “look at me and what I got out of this” sort of stuff. Was a bit strained back then, now I SEE THE LIGHT!!!
freethinker
I agree, I hated success stories and stalled on them every time because, even if I liked the session, or whatever, it never met the level of success. I remember the first time I refused to write one, it was three days in qual and they wanted me to do an OW write-up. Because I was new, they didn’t send me to ethics but I wasn’t going to write the damn success story because I had not achieved something I wanted to, or achieved something I hadn’t expected, it was just OK. ...
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So really, I had this as a withhold the whole time I was in Scientology. I used to make [expletive] up too because I wasn’t into being “handled” if I didn’t. I thought, someday I will have one but haven’t yet. I was a real pain ... for them, even at Flag. I had to pretend I was elated so I could leave. My win was I was able to get out of Flag and on a plane home. ...